Episode 005 - It’s Okay To Not Be Okay with Joel Sardi

“The thing that I had to really come to terms with was I would go to bed every night a quad, wake up a quad and everyone else’s life would just roll on.” 

Join the fellas as they chat with Joel Sardi, a great guy who became a Quadriplegic after an unfortunate accident at the pub one night with the boys. Joel speaks openly & honestly about the challenges he has faced since his life changed in an instant. From losing his independence, to searching for a way out and now becoming a husband and a dad, this bloke teaches us all a thing or two about what tough really is.

Talkin Tough is proudly brought to you by Ski For Life, an Australian charity dedicated to promoting mental health, wellbeing & suicide prevention. You can find out more at https://www.skiforlife.com.au/ 

If this Talkin Tough episode has struck a chord with you and you could do with some extra support, please reach out to a trusted mate or professional or call Lifeline on 13 11 14. https://www.lifeline.org.au/

listen to the full episode:

EPISIODE TRANSCRIPT:

Mike: Alright, welcome back to another episode of Talkin Tough. I'm really pumped to be here. I'm joined by my great mate, Ben Pettingill. We've got a fantastic guest today. Talkin Tough is a podcast about redefining what it means to be tough in the modern world, and it's proudly brought to you by Ski for Life.

Benny, I can't wait to get into this episode. We've got a great guest. It's gonna be fantastic.

Ben: Mate, I am bloody pumped. We've got Joel Sardi here. Joel, thank you so much for being here. How are you mate?

Joel: Thank you Mike. Thank you Benny. Thanks for having me.

Mike: First of all, tell us a bit about yourself.

Joel: Mate, I came to know you blokes probably two years ago when I started working for Get Skilled Access.

And it was there where I started working in the disability space and I really liked it. But I'm not someone that's had disability his whole life. I was 22 when I acquired my spinal cord injury, and that's where I really started to see things differently. Up until then, I lived a pretty independent life and lived interstate.

I was in the army, deployed to Afghanistan and played footy when I was a junior and basketball as a kid. And had a pretty cruisy life. [00:01:00]

Mike: I'm straightaway interested, you said you acquired your, injury or your spinal cord injury, that's something we're gonna get to. But you mentioned the army.

Can you tell us a little bit more about that? Obviously you think about the army, you have to be incredibly physically capable and active and those sorts of things. So take us back there. So you, grew up, you joined the army. Tell us a little bit more about that and then your deployment to Afghanistan.

Joel: Yeah, so playing football as a kid I always loved being around the boys and doing the physically, straining or the physically testing things and, I heard the infantry was similar to that, so I joined the Army and it was correct. It was physically tough, it was mentally tough. And the people I met, the friends I made, the experiences I had were incredible.

And if you talk about talking tough you're in an environment where you're tested and judged physically.

Mike: So your toughness is measured on your physical ability more or less? Yeah. And mental ability, or it is mostly physical?

Joel: The mental part comes in because if you are not able to [00:02:00] follow instructions or pull a weapon apart or pull it together or actually do what a soldier's supposed to do at a high level, then you get ostracized by the other soldiers.

Yeah. And that's where becoming physically tough, can almost. Subbed that out take, its place. And that's why the infantry, when I was in there, was a very, not toxic, but because toxic sounds bad, but it was very masculine, it was very testosterone field. What you could do for physically was a true reflection on you as a soldier almost.

Having deployed to Afghanistan and spent nearly five years in the army, I thought it was pretty, pretty physically tough and robust. And then when I got back from Afghan in 2014 I, got back the end of 2013. Mid 2014, I lost my balance three flights up on the staircase and fell into my back and broke my neck.

Mike: Wow.

Joel: [00:03:00] So became a quadriplegic straight away. And that's where I learnt what tough actually is.

Ben: Wow. Like when you just say that you're up the top of a flight of stairs, was that. At a party at home? Like how did that all come? Who was there? What happened? Can you tell us a bit about that actual story and time?

Joel: Yeah. And when I say I learned tough. I didn't learn it there, and then I learned it over the next few years. But to bring it back to the event I was at a, venue, let's say it was a bar, and I was there for the end of season football trip. No, I wasn't drunk. Everyone asked that. I was probably going to be, if I didn't fall down the stairs

Ben: I was on the way there!

Joel: Yeah, definitely. At the time I was a pretty big lad and could drink a bit. at the, When I fell I, hadn't been drinking heavily and I just lost my balance and imagine a spiral staircase when you look over the hand rail, you look down, it's a steep drop. And as I did look down, apparently that's where I lost my balance and [00:04:00] landed on my back and then concussed. When I came to, everything was a daze, but I recall just being paralyzed and laying on the floor and not being able to move a limb.

Ben: So you came to in the bar at the bottom of that staircase?

Mike: Yeah, Yep. Bit of a gap. Was it like after 10 seconds, few minutes?

Joel: I couldn't know. Couldn't tell you. No.

Mike: And yeah, just people surrounded you and you just couldn't move.

Joel: Yeah. Yeah, And something that sticks with me still is the fact that I was trying to move and I couldn't, and I tried to yell out help and I couldn't.

Mike: So you couldn't even speak at all.

Joel: Mike, so when you have a spinal cord injury your, diaphragm's paralyzed.

For quads it is. Diaphragm, use it to yell, use it for breathing. So you might hear me having to stop, have a breath because it affects my breathing, but it also affects how to yell, how to project your voice. So I couldn't yell. And I was on the floor and there was music, there was people, it was very loud.

And instead of people coming to my aid, they were filming me taking photos. And I was there [00:05:00] whispering like 'help'.

Mike: So what were... the hang on I'm, trying to compute this. You've got people you've, just fallen down. Did... were the people taking photos unaware that you'd fallen downstairs?

Joel: I couldn't tell you. I don't know what they were thinking.

Mike: Was anyone trying to help you and lift you up?

Joel: No.

Mike: No... no nothing.

Joel: No one came to my aid physically. It was absolutely coincidental that my housemate actually almost stepped over me and found me there. We did go to the place together, but he found me there.

He came down and I whispered call an ambulance. Like I can't move. And then that's where.

Mike: Panic?

Joel: Yeah. Oh absolutely. Panic shock. What the fuck's going on?

Mike: I can't even imagine. Now, you-

Ben: are you in pain as well?

Joel: No. What I remember, Benny, I had some pins and needles in your feet when you get a dead foot or a dead leg.

Mike: I remember those days joel.

Joel: Yeah. Sorry Michael.

Ben: Those good old days

Joel: Yeah. You and I could probably say the [00:06:00] same.

Mike: Very similar. Yeah.

So, you have that all over your body or?

Joel: Yeah, mate from my tip of my head to the tip of my toes. And that the absolute naive mindset I had was, ah, I got pins and needles, I'm gonna be fine.

And it's just like a, dead leg. I'll be good. Yeah. I'm in the army, I'm invincible.

Mike: And so your mate there he's, starting to think something's actually wrong here. So what happens then?

Yeah ambulance took me to the hospital. Neurosurgeon had spoken to my housemate before I went in alluded to him, look, if Joel does have spinal good injury, this is what his life may look like.

So in the pre-surgery room, I was waiting there and my housemate again, His name's Blair let's just say his name's Blair. It's easy. He was holding my hand and he was shocked. He was crying and everything and I said, Blair, it's gonna be fine. I've got pins and needles, I'm gonna be sweet. [00:07:00] I was pretty wrong, but I had to give my permission to sign, put the iPad to the pad of my nose to sign my consent because I couldn't move my arms obviously.

And then went into surgery and, Day and a half woke up... a day and a half after that woke up.

Ben: And at this point in time when you are signing consent with your nose.

Mike: It's a big one. It's a big one.

Ben: Big nose. I can't see it, but I'll trust you on that. Does anyone in your family know at this point in time what's going on?

Joel: I think Blairey had called my parents or my mum. But this is two in the morning or one in the morning by the time I got to the hospital. So it was a pretty big shock and I learned that because I was just talking to mum about it two days ago, she jumped on a 6:00 AM flight Sunday morning with dad to fly across from Melbourne to Adelaide.

Ben: Oh, so you weren't in Melbourne?

Joel: No, actually so, my accident happened in Adelaide.

Ben: Yeah. You're not near home, right?

Joel: Eh, no, I think that's... that made it a lot worse as well for mum and dad. I think about it like that they had to Now being a [00:08:00] father, if I got a call to say my kids had a fall interstate and I was helpless. I couldn't help 'em.

Mike: You've got no home base, do you?

Joel: Yeah So they, flew over the next morning and they were at my bedside when I woke up with my uncle and my girlfriend.

Mike: Unbelievable.

Ben: Far out.

Mike: Yeah. And did you do most of your recovery in Adelaide or they ended up transferring you back down?

Joel: No, I spent probably 10 days in Adelaide. And was a really critical time, because after spinal cord injury, your nervous system's fried and you go in and out of. I think consciousness, but then also spinal shock. Yeah, it was a, rough time, obviously a traumatic event. Yeah. It's gonna be some shitty times to follow.

And then I was transported to the Austin Hospital, I think it was 10 days after my accident.

Mike: Okay. Did all your rehab at the Austin? Yeah.

Joel: There's a ward called the Talbot sorry, Royal Talbot Hospital in Kew. And there's a spinal cord injury ward. So I spent [00:09:00] literally 12 months there.

Ben: Yeah, Mate, I want to like, that's obviously the physical rehab side of things, which would've been incredibly important. Don't want to, don't wanna dismiss that for a second. But I wanna understand what's going in between... going on in between those years at that point in time when you are waking up in Adelaide, your family there.

Like what sort of news are you hearing from the doctors? What's going on inside your head at that point in time?

Joel: Oh it's, amazing how much you can think, how many thoughts you make in a day. I think it's like 30,000 thoughts we make in a day.

Ben: Yeah. Something like that.

Mike: It's, yeah, like in a day,

Ben: something ridiculous, some huge number.

Joel: And imagine if you can't move your body, what your brain would do. Just, imagine that for a second. Because every time I would wake up from whatever sleep I'd had, or if the drugs had knocked me out and I wake up and I'm trying to move my legs or trying to move my arms, and they weren't moving, [00:10:00] and I was 22.

So I thought what the hell's gonna happen with my life? Yeah. So a lot was going on between the head, between the ears, Benny.

Ben: What sort of stuff?

Joel: Everything I was never gonna do. People that were gonna leave me how bad my life was gonna be, purely because I couldn't walk. Because... because if you can't do things like you used to, it's almost like you can't do it at all.

And that's what my mindset was.

Ben: Understandably.

Joel: Yeah. We're in a room full of blokes who have had severe trauma or changes to their life and if you think pre and post that significant incident, I guess at that time, during the trauma, if you think that. I can't do it like I used to. Then we do you reckon you were thinking you can't do it at all?

Am I making sense?

Ben: A hundred- yeah, mate, I can. I'm, just sitting here relating .

Mike: Proceed mate.

Ben: Absolutely. Like I was thinking if I can't see, I'm not gonna be able to drive, so therefore I'm not gonna be able to get anywhere. Yeah. Like now, like me and my main man, Harry, the [00:11:00] taxi driver, we go absolutely everywhere together.

But like at that point in time, I'm going if I can't drive, how am I gonna travel? How am I gonna get to work? How am I gonna-

Joel: catastrophize!

Ben: A hundred percent because yeah, you're not thinking clearly.

Mike: There's no light there is there? Most early days.

Joel: Rightly so.

Mike: And, you mentioned before if we can take it back a little bit, you mentioned before about the military and the pressures and the I guess the, masculine culture within the military for some reason for, many reasons. That's probably a necessary thing.

Yeah. When you're in absolutely. A high stakes environment. Yeah. And you said that you weren't. Really drawn to that thing. But you spent five years in the military where you said you realize what toughness was. So going back to that and growing up, obviously not by having a disability or anything, what did toughness mean to you as prior to your accident, your injury?

What did that mean? And particularly when you were involved in the military. And, obviously that's probably shifted. I'm hoping to hear you talk about how that shifted through your experiences. [00:12:00]

Joel: Yeah. Look we, grew up in a time, I'm not that old, through the early, late nineties and early thousands where mental health wasn't really much of a conversation.

Yeah. And I think it was a footballer for Hawthorn, Thompson. Nathan Thompson.

Mike: Nathan Thompson. Yeah.

Joel: I remember it was on the footy show and someone spoke about, he spoke about mental health and it's like it was a footballer with four heads. No one had ever heard of it. No one had ever heard of the struggles.

And I heard of it and thought, Ooh, like that sounds really bad. Imagine being that guy. And then you grow up watching your idols play football. because that was me. I love footy, love watching the, real physicality side of things. Paul Barnard, Jason Johnson, James, Heard, Matthew Lloyd, Essendon and those eras that, that era where physicality determined who you are as a man.

As a young bloke playing football. I tried to emulate that. Yeah. And I tried to hide the pain, whether it be physical or emotional. And that's [00:13:00] what led into why I really liked football. Love the physicality, love being disciplined. And if you were hurting, that's okay. You push forward and you achieve things as a team.

And that's what led me to, to the infantry as well. I loved looking at that, being tested physically, creating relationships. Imagine traveling the world, getting paid to stay fit with your best mates.

Ben: Yeah. Unreal. Yeah, that doesn't sound half bad.

Mike: Yeah. Big draw card. And it's just an extension of a football club culture as well, right?

Joel: Yeah, absolutely. And we're talking about average age of probably 20, 21, 22, where no one's got kids, no one's married, some people got girlfriends, but that's not... they're not holding you down from traveling the world because of the way a, marriage would, if yeah. Like you're not committed as much.

Everything about the infantry was appealing.

Mike: Your dependency levels on your physicality. And who you are. And obviously that's defining you as as a man. [00:14:00] You're, able to do whatever you want, whenever you want. Then all of a sudden, overnight you found yourself in a situation where you can't move.

Now I'm noticing that now you're sitting across from us.

Yeah. You are moving your hands and you're able to, I'm not sure whether or not you've got movement below your sort of waist area, was it almost nothing, no movement at all, straight away, and then gradually it came back? Or can you talk us through that how, that sort of worked.

Ben: And, obviously being a podcast, most people would be listening to it. So give us a bit of a rundown of, for everyone listening what the, physical effects are now as

Joel: well. Yeah. So I'm a, for those listening that, that aren't able to see. I am a power chair user. I've got no dexterity, so I can't use my fingers. I've got no tricep muscles, meaning I can't extend arm against gravity.

I did have nerve replacement surgery, but that's another conversation to actually give me a little bit of dexterity. So if I open my hands, all of my fingers open together and they [00:15:00] close together. As opposed to individual fingers. So imagine like touching your index finger to your thumb or to other parts of your fingers.

I can't do that. Yeah. But the surgery allowed me to open and close my hand and also activate a little bit of my, tricep, because when you're a quadriplegic you lose dexterity and tricep. So as soon as I had my injury, as soon as I broke my neck, there was dexterity gone, triceps gone, bowel and bladder gone, sexual function gone. So imagine that 22 year old losing your member, not being able to use it like you used to.

Ben: It's my worst nightmare.

Joel: Oh mate, Talk about it.

Ben: Oh I, dunno how to cope with that mate.

Mike: We have a giggle about it, but it's, the truth.

You've, You're in a hospital in, a different state. You've got your family around your bed, and then you mentioned you had your partner at the time, your girlfriend at the time come across.

Yeah. Is she how, did that situation work? And obviously the conversation about...

Joel: yeah that was [00:16:00] interesting.

Mike: Talk us through that.

Joel: Look, funnily enough that girl Elisa is now my wife and now we have two, two daughters, two beautiful girls. So that, answers your questionnaire about that scenario. That thought went through my head that I'm not worthy because I can't not do it as in do it.

But I can't live like I used to or I can't provide physically because everything that I used to do physically was how I would determine myself as a man. Yeah. I would determine, because I could deadlift X amount or bench press. Yeah. Or I could carry a pack or I wouldn't do the dishes, Mike, I wouldn't do... or the gardening.

Mike: Fuck that.

Joel: No, But everything I could do physically I'm like yeah, I can be a, good supportive boyfriend or potential husband in the future. Yeah. But then, cause I broke my neck suddenly. Physically I'm not there, so therefore I'm not able or worthy. And that conversation was had and then it was quickly pushed aside by Elisa because true to her words, she's not had to [00:17:00] change an element of her charisma or her makeup because she's been supportive from the moment I met her in 2008.

Mike: That's incredible.

Joel: Like she's been exactly the same from then till now. She's dealt with more of my shit than anyone could even imagine.

Mike: Yeah. And being with you, there with you every step of the way.

Joel: Yeah Yep We've had our breaks here and there we're married living in the house with two kids.

Mike: That's unreal, man.

Ben: Yeah. And are you opening talking or telling us a little bit about some of that shit? because I know I went through it myself with my wife Amy, where I literally had conversations with her about, I don't think you deserve to be someone with who... to be with someone who can't see. And like, you said, you're 22 years old and you've gotta go right.

As honest as it is, Elisa, we're not gonna be having sex for the rest of our life if we staying together.

Joel: Yeah. Look, yeah, that's, and that's funny because that's,

Ben: that's one little example, but yeah I'd, love to hear about not necessarily that, but whatever [00:18:00] conversations,

Joel: Benny, it's funny that's like where a 22 year old bloke's head's at.

Fuck. I'm not gonna be able to have sex anymore. Yeah. And, for those at home you can obviously I've got kids, so it, can happen. But when you watch movies and, when you hear the news or you, when you see someone has a spinal cord injury, the movie Million Dollar Baby, as soon as at the end of the movie because she's got a spinal cord injury, the only way for her to be happy is by her coach killing her.

That's, what I was brought up to see what happens to someone after they break their neck. So that's straight away what I was thinking about when I was in hospital thinking about Million Dollar baby, thinking about

Mike: so you, did you ever think about it?

Joel: Yeah. Always.

Mike: Yeah. You, thought about how always how, can I don't wanna be living in this life.

So those thoughts were, through your how long-

Trigger warning, sorry. To anyone listening, but definitely I,

Ben: no, don't be sorry. Do not be sorry for the way all our heads work.

Joel: Every day, every my [00:19:00] Mike, every day. I would look for a way. I would look for away every single day.

But the dark irony is when you can't move your hands off your legs you're at no risk of self-harm. But yeah I tried a couple of times and luckily sought help after that. And I'm in a really good place now because of actually hitting my lows.

Mike: But Can you tell us a little bit about the help you sought and why it was effective?

Ben: Why and why did you seek help?

Joel: I don't know what actually changed, but it was probably just the fact that. I hadn't been excited or happy in years because of my injury. And it wasn't just the injury, it was other stuff in my life that had led to that. But I realized like I hadn't been genuinely excited or happy or felt true emotion in years.

I was just numb and like we'd be getting ready to go on a holiday together and it'd be just nothing inside. So I think I was sick of that and probably over the [00:20:00] way I was thinking. Because there wasn't, like I was saying, every day I would if I was driving my car, I would think what would happen if I drive into that pole?

Should I just turn into that truck now? Yeah, I could do it now. And it never happened, obviously, but I was sick of thinking about that every day. Cause I thought that was normal. But obviously it's not now being many years post. But seeing a psych and being open about not being okay.

Mike: And that extends not just to conversations with your psych, its extends everywhere in your life now with your partner, your friends.

You're Okay? Okay So you mentioned just a second ago that you're in a much better place now. I'd love to hear about what have you gotta put in your life from a structure and a consistency perspective that make sure that you can enjoy yourself and can feel emotion and can get excited about things.

What is it that you've done and what do you stick to? What are your non-negotiables mate?

Joel: Non-negotiables. My training with my trainer, my exercise physiologist Philippe [00:21:00] we train minimum once a week, hopefully twice a week, and then I'll do my sessions on my own. And physical exercise is something I still love, even though I can't do much of it.

Ben: I was gonna say, what are you able to because I've never been able to see what you can and can't move. And when you say you go to the gym, I go a quadriplegic at the gym. How does that work?

Joel: Yeah. I think the same about you, Benny. So I'm gonna throw to you.

No, I wanna hear you. I'm

Ben: interviewing you today.

Joel: No I I've got a skier at home skierg, you strap your hand. You don't strap your hands, you'll hold onto it and pull it down. So I can do a fair bit of that because I've got lats, got bicep and a little bit of my trap muscles. So I can pull that down for a bit of cardio, do bicep curls, shoulder press.

I can recline my chair back so I can do essentially a bench press with a, weighted bar. Yep. It's really up to how creative you can get. Yeah. And, luckily my trainer Philippe shout out Philippe World of SCI.

Ben: Yeah. He's that's [00:22:00] it.

Joel: He's incredible. And we're, really good friends.

So he's able to train me and they're my non-negotiables, exercise

Mike: Yep.

Joel: and being absolutely honest with, Elisa. Medication.

Mike: Medication.

Joel: People poo the medication. But yeah, I went and got the I did a saliva test from the psychiatrist, which tested all the, enzymes and how it would break down medication in my gut.

So then I was able to work out exactly which antidepressant would be really useful for me, which wouldn't have side effects. And I've been on it for two years now, and there has not been any of those bad thoughts. There's not been- I've had dips. Because our mental health will dip and peak, but there's never been the lowest of lows like I used to go through every, week or every two weeks.

Ben: And like you say, you've just gotta find what works, eh, and just be open to it. Yeah.

Yeah. You read your body, there's a lot of stigma around stuff like that, but if, yeah.

Joel: Yeah. [00:23:00] Oh mate. Like early days people would say, oh don't have medication in, in, it's bad for you. Get off it. Or, What are you doing with that shit?

You don't need that. Talking about bad advice. I know we're gonna get to that in a second, but Yeah. There's a reason that stuff exists. There's a reason psychiatrists administer you antidepressants and I will have that until I'm six feet under the ground because why wouldn't I?

Why wouldn't I want to live?

Ben: If it works for you, then there is absolutely no shame in doing what works. And I think that's really important.

Yeah, mate, we'd love to. Also hear a little bit about what you do to refill your tank. So as in, you've got your non-negotiables. But what do you do for you to keep that mind healthy?

What do you enjoy on a daily basis?

Joel: It's very simple for me, Benny Mike. It's when I can, I will throw my oldest girl in the car and not throw her, I'll place ,her strap her into the seat, which is a challenge, but I [00:24:00] can get it done and then drive down and have a coffee with her. She has a baby Chino.

Yeah. We sit there and that's, the best sitting there listening to her just yamble on about anything.

Mike: That's great.

Joel: Like it's not about living in mansions, it's not about flying jets around the world. For me it's a simple things. Yeah. And they are the simple things. And then bringing, so say I start working at nine, Benny, I'm working from home.

I'll tell my carer to come a little bit earlier so I can have a half an hour buffer so that I can go with Elisa, my wife. Luna and Esme and my daughters. And we'll go to the cafe in Eltham, we'll sit there. We'll have our standard two Almond cappuccinos, two baby Chinos. We sit there and we just enjoy, I enjoy their company for half an hour before work, before work.

Ben: That's brilliant. That's the little things aye?

Joel: I couldn't start my day any better. Than something like that.

Mike: Joel, I know. Some pretty dark times in rehab and those sorts of things. And... and one thing I know that disappears straight away after a life-changing [00:25:00] incident is your dignity straight away.

Tell us a little bit about that, mate, because you go from doing everything yourself.

Ben: That sounds like a laugh of experience.

Mike: I've got plenty of plenty, of circumstances and situations. But tell us about some of the more, the tougher things about getting back to the, day to day and, I guess re integrating yourself into life and doing the things you before.

What are some of the tough things and maybe some of the harder things that you've been through since, your spinal cord injury?

Joel: Look early. Geez, we don't have long enough to talk about that. But I remember thinking about when I first broke my neck, that I would look out the window and I'd get angry at people who were walking who were able-bodied.

Cause I just assumed that they weren't going through hardship or they weren't, they didn't have disability. I couldn't see, I was very probably wrong back then. But the thing that I had to really come to terms with was I would go to bed every night a quad. Wake up a quad. Everyone else's life would just roll on.

And they were, they were going to school, they were going to uni working, they were making [00:26:00] progress with their life. But I wasn't just because I had the spinal cord injury and there was a lot to take in, I'll give myself that, but I wasn't getting anywhere because I was just really dwelling on the fact that I had just broken my neck.

So being able to come to terms with it, accept the injury, and actually move on and, be happy with the fact that I had a spinal cord injury and I was still Joel, and, but the dark days learning that I had to use a catheter to piss or to, shit in the mornings, every two days I'd have to have a suppository put in there and like all the the, bowel stimulation, all that sort of stuff. Talk about loss of dignity well yeah there you go. Having someone wipe your ass. That's pretty hard.

Mike: And, that's something you've gotta consistently manage still?

Joel: Oh yeah. Every two days. Every two days, yep.

Ben: I wouldn't recommend getting a blind support worker for that.

Joel: No or... or a larger fella, because when they gotta do a stim just-

Ben: what's a what's stim?

Joel: Look [00:27:00] I wasn't gonna go there guys, but we're gonna go there now.

Ben: Nothings off limits on this podcast.

Joel: When you're incontinent, you can't actually tense or like use your sphincter muscle, which is what you used to snap one off.

And for me to ensure that my bowels completely empty so I don't shit myself later that day. A carer's gotta literally put, I think it's an index finger. In my freckle and like tickle around there. Yeah. And ensure there's no more juice in there. Chunky or loose.

Ben: And then this, is every two days.

Joel: Every two days. Rotate back and forth. Do the (whistle) around the outside.

Ben: I don't wanna rub it in mate, but mine's tensing up.

Joel: 50 cents to 5 cents are ya?

Yeah. Something like that. So yeah, that's every two days and. Imagine that as a 22 year old you're waking up from only 10 days ago I was wearing camps and now someone's sticking there, digit up my freckle and I'm like, what is going on?

Yeah. And even, more so you, you're sitting there and because you don't get a [00:28:00] choice in the hospital who does your care in the morning? Had a bloke like Wash my old fella. What is going on?

Ben: Oh, that's the worst.

Joel: Looking down and he's doing his thing and yeah. I thought, nah what's, happening here?

Yeah. Talk about loss of dignity.

Ben: Yeah. Talking about loss of dignity.

Mike: You've got obviously a huge adjustment to be able to... you've got every two days, you're gonna have to have some sort of system and routine. What about going and traveling and doing those sorts of things going on airplanes and then I, guess it falls does it land on... I'm assuming, does it land on your or the flight attendant or what? What happens there?

Joel: What are we talking about when we travel?

Mike: Planning, when you're traveling, like how do you, manage that and how do you manage your ongoing care?

Because I'm assuming, obviously you've got someone coming in on a...

Joel: alright. Look, if I do an interstate trip, I'll go for one night. I'll go for one night because my mates on the other end can look after me. Don't need a shower. Don't need to go to the toilet. So the interstates are fine, like for one night, but if I have to go for two nights, generally I'll bring a Elisa.

And for [00:29:00] work, I'm lucky. I've got an amazing workplace that actually understands what it is to have disability and, the requirements I need. My last job was the same, but I know there's some out there that don't. But if I have to travel, say more than six hours, I can't do it in economy because my blood pressure would just go funny from sitting upright for too long. I get skin problems on my ass just from not being able to move and do like pressure lifts. So yeah. I say I have to, I don't have a choice. I have to go business because it's just not safe. Yeah.

Ben: Yeah. Have you done any of those?

Joel: Yeah, I did. Yeah. So when I first broke my neck, ANZAC house and RSL paid for me to go to rehab in America. Yeah and that was pretty cool. That was my first trip on a plane. In business class and I was just chilling there as a quad. Like living, the dream. It was so good.

Ben: Living the Quad Dream business class.

Mike: Yeah. And you, hear a lot about people that I've got... one of my best mates [00:30:00] is, quadriplegic. He, did the same, so he went over to the states. What's the thinking behind that Is, it that in Australia that it's maybe the care isn't up to scratch because a lot of the time even high profile Will Murray, I'm sure you're aware of, go over to the states to do their rehab.

What's the reason for that?

Joel: Early days when I first broke my neck, there was this place called Project Walk and everyone spoke about it as if the mecca for paralysis recovery. So we just followed suit and we went over there. It was in Southern California. So one, great climate for quads, for if anyone like Paras as well, if they struggle with temperature regulation.

For context, I can't sweat. So on the reverse I can't warm up. So I really get messed around in temperatures where it goes from 20 to eight degrees or, vice versa.

Ben: So. Melbourne's shit.

Joel: Yeah. Melbourne's terrible. Yeah. Love Melbourne. But the weather is just really not friendly. So something Southern California, it's like an average [00:31:00] of 24.

Yeah, it's quite flat in a lot of areas. Really Really accessible.

Mike: I remember we have a friend who's, got a spinal cord injury. He went over there and the thing that sticks out to me, he said that in Australia they treat spinal cords as disabled in America they treat you as injured and the difference between the two.

Joel: That's interesting. Yeah.

Mike: Yeah. I remember hearing that and I'm thinking about that, so the, belief is that you can recover. If you've got an injury, you can make a recovery from it rather than you are just, oh you're stuffed, you've got disability, let's just manage it. There's an element of hope attached to that. Would that be an accurate thing to say the way they treat spinal cord injury over there?

Joel: I think that's a byproduct of the way they, just treat people. Yeah. They, looked at me as another person, whereas here in Australia early days, I realized, and I noticed it, that I get stared at. People would look at me like I was someone with 15 heads.

Mike: Even in [00:32:00] healthcare, even now?

Oh no, Like in a professional setting like that. It was fine.

Ben: Yeah. Yeah.

Joel: But there was no talk about You will be fine. No one ever told me that. No. And rightly because I don't.

You don't want people telling you that when you just have an injury, but over there it was, they were progressive thinkers. They think outside the box and I don't think the word occupational health and safety or the phrase exists over there. They'd lift me outta my chair.

Oh they things they would do just because they gave a shit.

Mike: Yeah.

Joel: They wanted to see me recover. Not to get to what I used to, but just recover to some certain extent. And they were fantastic. That was the early days.

Ben: Was it worthwhile?

Joel: Yeah. That saved my life. Yeah, yeah.

Mike: Incredible.

Joel: It saved my life. Yeah. I wouldn't be in the same physical being or mental being as I am now if I didn't go over there and learn about spinal cord.

Mike: How long did you go for, what was it?

Joel: A year

Mike: a whole year? Yeah. Wow. And it was just full-blown hardcore rehab for a whole year.

Joel: Yeah, mate. So it was two [00:33:00] stints. I went for six weeks the first time just to get a taste.

Yeah And then 11 months the next time. And that was where the 11 month stint like I was at... I dropped 30 kilos. We were working out five times a week, three hours a day. And as a quad. That's a fair bit.

Mike: That's like fair BIT more than a professional athlete?

Joel: I don't know. We'd have to ask our friend Dylan Benny or Boyd but yeah, like it's intense. It was enough for me.

Mike: Yeah, Absolutely.

Joel: But I loved it.

Mike: You loved it. Got into the groove and your improvements.

So you, were in Australia, you go over there, your improvements at the end of the year. Where were you and then where did you get to with your physical ability?

Joel: I still came back in a wheelchair.

But mentally I was, I'd accepted the injury. I'd found my purpose, my identity was back.

Mike: Yeah. That's amazing.

Joel: Yeah. Joel was back, yeah.

Physically I'd lost all that weight, which is really important, and I was able to stand a little bit here and there. But [00:34:00] it was more so what upstairs had improved.

Mike: Yeah. Amazing.

Ben: Yeah that's awesome. Mate, I want to dive a little bit deeper if I can, into you and your kids. Because I'm a dad now, Mike, you're a dad now. I was gonna say old man, but a dad now. As in a

Mike: bit harsh,

Ben: but yeah. As in when I said old man, like the phrase

Mike: Yeah, no, I know what you mean.

Ben: Yeah. Yeah. Looking up the old man. Anyway, what I was getting to was, it must be bloody hard when I know you've shared with me before and I'd love to talk a little bit more about it. Like people think postnatal depression only happens in females. I know that isn't the case. And I know that I've been through different stages now having my little girl going, she deserves a dad that can see.

Or I'm worried about her because I can't see what she's doing in the backyard. What if there's a snake in the backyard? Have I got all the shit out of [00:35:00] cleaning... cleaning her when I'm changing her? Like everything from that to that and everything in between. Like constantly questioning whether I'm gonna be good enough as a dad for her.

I'd love to hear about your experiences if you're comfortable.

Joel: Oh yeah, absolutely. And thanks for telling me mate. Cause I, I've always thought what would Benny... what would Benny think?

Yeah. Because I think we all think the same. Imposter syndrome exists in everybody. Regardless of what you are, actor, politician, athlete, dad we'll find any excuse to think that we're not worthy.

We did it with relationships, Benny. And now we did it with parenting and you mentioned postnatal depression. Absolutely. I had it both times with both girls. The first time was really bad, ended up in hospital. The second time, I had six weeks leave, and I was able to manage it and, work through it.

But it sucks. Yeah, it really sucks. And [00:36:00] I'm glad we're talking about the kids because I wrote a list of the things that really get under my skin as a quad dad. But then for everything that I can't do, there is 10 things that are incredible because of my injury. So I'm not, dwelling on it, but I wrote a list and let's have a look at 'em.

Not being able to get on the ground and play with the kids, picking them up from the cot when they cry. So when they wake up at night, instead of them calling out for, dad, they call out for mum because naturally mum's the only one that's been to get then. Not being able to swim with them.

I'll be able to dress them and then going out for adventures more than just chuck her in the car, go to one location where someone can help me and go home. So there's some of the things that I wrote down as a list and the one thing I'm not disappointed about Benny and I think we can all agree is changing nappies.

Mike: Get outta that.

Ben: Yeah, I did one this [00:37:00] morning and it was from the back of the neck all the way around. Oh. And it wasn't great and I dunno if I got it all, but Yeah not my problem now. But yeah.

Joel: And that's a real challenge they don't know any different. So you Evie's not gonna know what it's like to have a dad who can see, therefore, she's not gonna know what she's missing out on.

My girls aren't gonna know what it's like to have a dad who can boot him up the ass. Cause it's not gonna happen. Yeah, I'm not gonna do that. Okay. Before the switchboard lights up, I'm not gonna do it. Relax. Obviously I'm not gonna do it cause and never would've happened.

Ben: And I wouldn't

Joel: and I wouldn't. That's it. No you know, what I'm mean? You know what I'm getting at. So I don't waste time on the, hypotheticals or the what ifs. Because why would I? No one knows what if.

Mike: And you said it beautifully before, you know you're taking 'em down and your favorite thing in the world to do is to take, your eldest and have a baby Chino and just enjoy your time with her and I'm pretty sure that to her you are the [00:38:00] most important thing in her world. It doesn't matter about your injury you are just dad. And the same goes for Ben and hopefully the same goes for me with Sully although he's getting a few black eyes here and there from my legs from smashed into him.

So he's slowly starting to work out, they'rere not soft. Little bit of a hazard these days. So we were talking about the other day and, one of my friends actually said, I said, oh, you know what point do you reckon Sully is gonna say something about your legs, and I reckon, I don't even reckon he will. I reckon he'll just grow up and one of his friends will come over and he goes, what's wrong with your dad's legs?

He'll look and go. What do you mean? You're just dad at the end of the day. I can totally understand what Ben's saying about are you worthy? Are you gonna be able to do all these things? And I think at the end of the day, doesn't it just come down to, loving your kids and being as supportive as you possibly can to 'em? No.

Ben: Yeah. And yeah, focusing on the things you still can do. Yep. Instead of putting your time and energy into the things that you can't.

And for a mental health perspective that's, definitely a big thing that I try and do. And it's not easy [00:39:00] every day, but Sounds like you are doing the same. Mate, love to hear what's next? What does the future look like? What's what are some of the goals? Include, what are you working towards?

What are you looking forward to?

Joel: Oh, look, what's next? What's next? What's next? I'll tell you what's next for me. We're gonna go stay in the city this weekend. Tonight, tomorrow night and Sunday night. We're gonna go and have a little family staycation and just being present and enjoying those sort of moments.

Mike: Brilliant

Joel: as challenging as they could be, getting outta the house with two kids to just scream. Creating memories.

Ben: I know that feeling not with two I know it with one

Joel: ah, yeah. But creating memories, Benny is something I really want to do. Just little things I guess going go in the, cafe and, but yeah, those little memories are really important.

I wanna keep creating the.

Mike: Awesome Joel, with all our guests, one of the things we love to do is to throw a few quick fire questions at you.

Ben: That we do.

Mike: Yep. Are we able to do that for you now mate?

Joel: Send it.

Mike: Righto.

Ben: Send it. Strap yourself into that chair.

Mike: Joel Sardi on Talkin Tough schnitty or steak mate?

Joel: Steak.

Mike: Steak.

Ben: How do you have it?

Joel: Medium rare.

Mike: Lovely.

Joel: Any sauce?

Mike: No.

Ben: No sauce.

Mike: No sauce. It's unusual.

Joel: It's a beautiful piece of meat don't ruin it.

Mike: No mustard or anything?

Joel: No.

Ben: He said no.

Joel: No. Nothing.

Mike: Nothing. A standard bit of beef. Salt?

Joel: Salt

Mike: And that's it?

Joel: I'm Italian. So salt comes with it? Yeah. Put it on me toothpaste.

Mike: Where do you go to switch off, mate?

Joel: Where do I go to switch off? Oh, the gym. Skierg

Mike: Book, poddy or tunes?

Joel: Podcasts.

Mike: Podcasts.

Joel: Thank you very much.

Mike: Love it. The best place to have a yarn with a mate?

Joel: Anywhere where there's something in the background to distract, footy, at the pub.

Mike: Fantastic And what's the worst advice you've ever been given about your mental health?

Joel: If there's anywhere that can get through it be you.

Mike: Wow. You copped that?

Ben: Yeah. Copped that

Mike: Yeah wow. How'd that make you feel? If you could, would you have punched him?

Joel: Yeah at the time it really confused me, set me off on the wrong track. But yeah, that was some pretty shitty advice. But then on the opposite side of that, someone told me it's okay not to be okay.

Mike: Yeah. So that's the best advice.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely not to be. Okay, love that.

Ben: And you got the last one?

Mike: Yeah. Last one. What's your definition of tough, Joel?

Joel: Definition of tough.

Ben: Knowing what you know now.

Joel: Knowing what I know now, I guess it's the copying things that don't go your way, accepting them and moving on as a quad there's a lot of that, a lot of stuff that doesn't go your way that you can't do and accepting it and actually looking at what's next or what you can do, and finding the joy in that.

Mike: Love that great advice.

Ben: Absolutely. Awesome mate. Thank you so much for, being on today. We've had an absolute ball and super insight, like the, openness and the honesty that you've shown, we absolutely appreciate. I know everyone listening would agree with that. So mate, best of luck with everything you've got coming up and just like you said, making the most and enjoying every day with the family.

Mike: It is so good to have you on. Thanks mate. Good luck with the show guys

Joel: Cheers Guys yeah, no, it was awesome talking to you

Mike: Cheers.

Ben: As always, if anything in today's episode has either struck a chord with you or encouraged you to pick up the phone and check in on someone, obviously do that.

Pick up the phone, check in with mate, or call a mate. And if they don't pick up, you can always call Lifeline on 13 11 14. We'll catch you next time.