Episode 004 - Never Let Go with Tim “Watty” Watt

11 Sep

“What people didn’t know, and I hadn’t told anyone for 20 years, was that I’d lost my brother to suicide. But what they did know was ‘Watty’s mad on skiing’...so I just said ‘Yep, I’ll go for a ski’”

The boys have the honor of having a yarn with one of the founding Ski For Life members, Tim “Watty” Watt. Watty shares with the fellas his experience of losing his brother to suicide over two decades ago but how it still rocks him regularly. Then how a random phone call about an outrageous idea lead to he and his family and a bunch of mates coming together to take on the challenge of waterskiing 500km along the Murray River in the name of mental health, wellbeing & suicide prevention.

A down to earth bloke who wears his heart on his sleeve, tells it as it is and goes hard!

Talkin Tough is proudly brought to you by Ski For Life, an Australian charity dedicated to promoting mental health, wellbeing & suicide prevention. You can find out more at https://www.skiforlife.com.au/

If this Talkin Tough episode has struck a chord with you and you could do with some extra support, please reach out to a trusted mate or professional or call Lifeline on 13 11 14. https://www.lifeline.org.au/

listen to the full episode:

EPISIODE TRANSCRIPT:

Ben: [00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of Talkin Tough. Proudly brought to you by Ski for Life, an incredible Aussie charity focused on promoting mental health wellbeing and suicide prevention. This podcast is all about, as always, redefining what it means to be tough.

Now I'm pumped about this, This episode Mike how you mate, first of all

Mike: I'm absolutely pumped, as we always are. We end up getting these stellar guests

Ben: Don’t talk them up too much

Mike: Mike: I've enjoyed every single one so far, and I'm really looking forward to this one.

I've had the pleasure of getting to know this champion of a bloke during our trips on the Mates’ on a mission trips’, you know, in partnership with Ski for Life We've had some wonderful conversations. I can't wait to dig into the fascinating character and a bit of a larrikin as well, so looking forward to [00:01:00] it Benny

Ben: Mate, Absolutely. Formerly known as Tim Watt, but Watty Thanks for joining us, mate

Watty: Thanks, boys appreciate the intro

Mike: Good to have you here Watty thanks for making the trek all the way over what time did you rock in this morning?

Watty: Oh yeah got here around 7 or 8 o’clock

Ben: Not bad for interstate

Mike: It's not a bad effort. And how the nerves behind the Mike going so far?

Watty: Tim: Well, that's a bit foreign to me. So yeah. So I do have a few nerves, but that'll be alright

Mike: This is your first time in a podcast studio Watty?

Watty: Yes, And podcasts and me don't have a lot in common so I'm learning a fair bit pretty quick.

Ben: Legless mate, as always, well, not as always, but today you've told us that you've come along with a story and you want to run it past [00:02:00] us to see, if Watty and I reckon, tough or not tough?

Mike: Bit of a question of whether or not this is tough or not, you know, I found this little doozy on the Web.

As always do. I was doing a bit of reading. And I know what my answer to this one is.

So it's about a bloke by the name of Peter Freuchen who was a Danish explorer, a journalist, author and anthropologist to boot.

So he's covered a fair bit of ground in his life, it's fair to say.

Ben: What’s an anthropologist?

Mike: Well, what you know, anthropologist is over there Tim Watt? Tell us!

Watty: Not the technical version. No we're going to stay away from it before I bury myself.

Ben: Can you just help us out here?

Watty: He digs rocks, and a few other things

Mike: So it’s fair to say he's covered a bit of ground [00:03:00] in his days. He's widely known for his exploration of the Arctic Circle and discovery of vast areas of Greenland. He was an indigenous rights activist. He married an Inuit woman and he escaped a death warrant issued by the Third Reich for punching a Nazi.

I mean, that's pretty that's pretty pretty bold move right there

Ben: And what’s this blokes name again?

Mike: His name is Peter Freuchen You can look him up, He received you also, weirdly enough, right? You think, okay, he's an anthropologist. He’s knocking around in Greenland. He received an Academy Award for the best most motion picture in 1933. He also won the $64,000 question as a contestant on a game show. And he wrestled a polar bear and he won. He won it. Right. This is a true story, I know it’s hard to believe.

And if all this wasn't enough, here’s the grand [00:04:00] finale he escaped a near-death encounter in a blizzard by fashioning a spade out of his own frozen shit.

That's what our mate Pete’s done.

So, boys, I ask you the question again. Tough or not tough?

Watty: Hands down Toug

Mike: Hands down tough? Sounds like a bit of a unit

Ben: a bit of a unit is probably the best way of putting it. Tough in some senses of the word.

Mike: Sure. But he covered so much ground mate? He was producing movies. He was on game this guy did it all right?

Ben: This guy should’ve been named Jack, Jack of All trades

Mike: I know. What a champion.

But on that note We'd love to ask you before we get into your story. Growing up as a young whippersnapper, we always like to ask all of our guests Watty, what did tough mean to you?

Watty: Tough to me was, as a [00:05:00] young guy, probably six, seven years old, in the shearing shed.

And we had tough shearers and the tougher the shearer the more tattoos and the bigger the muscle. So that was the version of tough that I grew up with.

Ben: Yeah righto, did you spend a bit of time in shearing sheds?

Watty: Yeah. As a kid, yeah. We were on the sheep farm, and every year you would shear you once or twice a year And there's always a team of guys around and they, they worked hard and they played hard.

Mike: Was there anyone in particular that sticks out to you as the toughest bloke that you were surrounded by? Growing up?

Watty: As far as a shearer. Several years later, when I was a jackaroo in Western Queensland, there was a guy that went off. He was unhappy with his Ram and the Ram was unhappy with him [00:06:00] clearly and it was a big animal and he stepped on a box, picked up a 100 plus kilo ram and hung iton the shearing gear and I all went, (looks up in awe)

‘Okay that's not just tough, that's out of control’. He went off!

Mike: You've got blokes in the, in the gym doing sort of deadlifts and you know, like clearing jerks above their heads And this bloke has just just stood on a box and done it to 100 kilo ram. He was more than 100 Kilos

He was pretty agitated, He was kicking and carrying on and this bloke just picked upand hung up there and I was about 75 kilos, Jackaroo, ringing wet, I went the other way

Mike: And this bloke What did everyone do? The whole shed would just stopped and just gone.

Oh my God.

Watty: They actually physically had to stop the [00:07:00] machine and then get the ram down. And my boss came in and he was going Oh, my God. And having a few conversations with this bloke and calming him down a little bit, we decided for him to have a cup of tea

Well, that's what I saw that as being tough. And whatever else went by that thought he was off the planet. Yeah. Strong like physical.

Ben: Well, that's a fair old definition of tough when you're growing up.

Watty: Absolutely. Yeah.

Ben: And tell us about growing up as a whippersnapper. What was life like?

Watty: Western Victoria Family farming sheep. So we had a plenty of space. We had motorbikes and utes and lots of fun on the farm. We were out of town obviously, and we made our own fun and just did normal farm stuff and life was good. And then went away to boarding school for [00:08:00] a while and I enjoyed boarding and sports, I was, yeah, I'm tall, so I got an advantage there

Mike: What did you play?

Watty: Well, I was on the footy team doesn’t mean you’re good at it tall does not mean you're going to be the best ruckman so yeah I was a skinny and uncoordinated sort of a dude. So I didn't last that long.

Mike: Country Footy is tough That'll soon find you out.

Watty: And by then, I'd discovered that our family was big on water skiing. So we done a lot of water skiing by then. And I figured actually that's where I fit in better and my footy career was pretty short.

Ben: ‘Let’s get behind the boat’ Speaking of water skiing

Mike: Yeah, you know, a little birdie told me that, you know, your big, you know, involvement with Ski for Life you know, been huge over the years [00:09:00] and you're obviously very accomplished when it comes to water skiing and probably a bit modest it's fair to say as well.

A little birdie told me that you actually taught the man the myth, the legend next to me had a water ski. Can you tell us a little bit about that story?

Because I've heard one version, but I'd like to hear from you, Mate What happened there?

Watty: Well, I didn't teach him how to ski. I already knew he could ski And then I heard he could ski race.

And I went, okay, so he's got some Ticker

and he's got no eyes... okay There was a new level there for me. And it occurred to me that he couldn't barefoot. Because no one had taught him. And I thought, well, if you can ski race 100 miles an hour and we're only doing 70 k's an [00:10:00] hour, that’s slow compared to him.

So I set about teaching him how to barefoot and I thought all that was pretty good.

And then we had another blind mate turn up and he wanted to ski and I said to Ben, it be pretty good if the three of us. could ski? Like you two blokes one each side and I’ll go in the middle.

Ben: And because Charlie wanted Charlie's goal he goes, Ben I really want to skate with you, two

blind blokes skiing together and I've gone to Watty I’ve gone Well, I think you should be in the middle of this because I know Charlie's keen, but I'm not so be keen on the idea of, like, a blind bloke and a blind bloke skiing together without being able to see each other.

Watty: It was a recipe for disaster

Ben: Well, yeah, that's it.

Watty: So I got [00:11:00] you involved andso I spent two days with Charlie to

A) get him on a ski and get some control, and he had very little control. Charlie has no version of up, down or otherwise

Ben: And he would tell you that too.

Watty: And the first go around I didn't realize but we broke his ankle so we had to wait 12 months. He didn't tell me he'd broken his ankle. We just said he was a bit sore and he had enough for the day And then we discovered later on he broke his ankle.

So 12 months later, we get organized, right. The two boys are going to ski, and I'll go in the middle and I'll be useful. Steer them, stop crashing into each other.

So we're in the water, right? "You blokes right to start?" "Yep". And I know Ben can start and ski on his [00:12:00] own, so I just let him go.

Charlie was having trouble getting in and out of the water I thought right as soon as we get mobile, I'm going to grab him by the shoulder and he'll know where he is.

That'd be fine.

I let go of my rope. Too early to grab him on the shoulder.

And he was fine and he and Ben skiied away and I’m left in the water here in the watching two guys skiing away going, ‘This is not good’ This is not good.

Ben: This is When I take over the story. what is a part of the story ended here

Watty: It didn’t end well

Ben: I didn't know that at the time.

Watty: But then I waved ‘Keep going, they’ll be fine’ not good.

Ben: And from my point of view we were in the water. Yep. Right. Go. And what he had said to [00:13:00] me.

Go right when you get up, just go right and give us room and then slowly drift back in and then the three of us will ski to the next stop on Ski for Life. And I was like, Yep, sweet. So boat takes off.

I've done exactly like a burnt out. I've gone right and I haven't seen what Watty’s just described. So I'm up and I'm cheering

Let's go! On Ya Boys!

And I'm here and Charlie going Yeah, let's go.

So here we are, we’re skiing and I’ve slowly started to drift back in and slowly started to drift back in.

And I'm like, Watty! and I hear nothing.

Charlie's going Benno, where’s Watty?

I said, mate This is not the time for a game of ‘Where’s Watty’ because we're not going to be any good at it

So I said, I don't think Watty’s here [00:14:00] Charlie. Meanwhile Watt’s just 500 meters back behind us and the boats still going and the boat's sort of slowing down.

And I'm gesturing, speed up, thinking everything's all good

So then they're speeding up, then they slowing down and we can't communicate with the boat.

Because when you're skiing out behind the boat, thats all through hand signals and being able to see the hand signals.

So that's that's not exactly working. So eventually I hold onto Charlie, we run into each other in the middle of the like the on the boat.

We both holding on going or we achieve the goal of skiing together.

Mike: Yeah. No thanks to you.

Watty: Absolutely no help

Ben: we’re looking back over our shoulder going, Can’t see him

Do we go back and get him or do we just keep skiing? But we were the last boat to take off so we just [00:15:00] counted down and let go and went back and got out mate Watty that we didn't necessarily .

Watty: didn't need at all. But we did skii the 15K’s guys back together, the second go around We did get into it. And as funny as it was, that was very cool to be able to say two things.

The three of us Skied 15K together and two of us skied a kilometer and a half together before going back and got ya

Mike: But you're a bloody good sport and, and you've got obviously a real passion for Ski for Like. Tell us a little bit about how you got involved and why you are so passionate about, you know, a charity that supports mental health, wellbeing and suicide prevention?

Watty: Yeah, well, passionate. We started it, so we had a mate with the idea. He said, You want to do something.

And he [00:16:00] was in a mentally really challenged state and said he wanted to do something,

physically want to do something. Rang up a mate of mine, Greg said, I think I've got an idea. I want to go skiing.

Do you wanna come? Yeah they decided. Then rang me knowing that we were a skiing family and I got this weird phone call, Watty would you like to go for a Ski?

"Yeah, I'd love to."

"500Ks in five days."

Clunk and the phone Hang up... What?

Well and 30 seconds later I'm thinking, well I don't know what they're up to, but I'm still keen.

That sounds great. 500Ks?

I mean... anyway they rang me back and we had a bit of a conversation and six weeks later we did it.

Mike: Incredible

Watty: To see if we could do it, to see if we could make it into something bigger. We [00:17:00] started with three families, couple of boats, fuel, food, logistics, did all that, and that was the start of what is now Ski for Life, where we take 500 people up the river.

Mike: And you said yes pretty quickly, but it's a bit of a tall order. Did you ask at any point what Ski For Life or what Watty was trying to achieve with that with that sort of effort that he was?

Watty: No

Mike: didn't care about that.

Watty: I thought if someone's mad enough to Ski 500k’s I want in, I'm going to have a crack at this. And. Yeah, well, we'll join the dots later, no doubt in this discussion. But what people didn't know and I hadn't told anyone for 20 years was I had Lost my Brother to suicide And what they did know, was Watty’s mad on skiing,

So ask him he’ll do it and [00:18:00] that's all, I let them on. I didn't say anything. I just said, yep, I'll go for the ski and take the family. And we love skiinga nd it was a challenge to the family and we thought

A) would be really cool if we could do it. And B) if we can turn this into something really big, then we could have a big impact.

Ben: So that sort of came second to the skiing

Let's not beat around the bush if you just mention it, of what you you hadn't talked about for 20 years. Tell us about that. Tell us about your relationship with your brother and yeah, what what actually happened.

Watty: So Kieran's my younger brother. There's four of us in the family I've got an older sister and a brother a year behind me, above and behind. And then he was couple of years below and [00:19:00] I just came back from Queensland as a jackaroo pretty quickly, turned around and headed off to Canada. And I'd been in Canada. I did the 12 months there, sorry.

Then I came back home and I was going back for a second stint and I was I'd been in Canada for three or four weeks, second time around with the intent to be there for a year. And you know, I got a phone call late one night and it was my mum trying to explain to me something was wrong, but she couldn't get the words out.

And Dad said, "There's been an accident, your brother's dead".

And that was horrific. Just, you don't want to have that happen ever. You don't have that phone conversation you're sure as hell don’t want to be on the other side of the world, and I'm in a foreign place with [00:20:00] a new family that I've known for three or four weeks.

And I was just and I didn’t know what to do, I slammed the phone down, I was in my jocks it was -20 and I ran and ran and I ran. out in the snow and eventually stopped running and it was dark and I didn't feel anything.

Couldn’t tell you till this day, It didn't feel cold and I didn't feel anything. I was just on a Yes, it was just shock I suppose and and then it's a bloody long trip home when you don't actually know the details.

And no one could tell me. And there was a blizzard. There was. I'd run into a blizzard. I didn't realize how dangerous what I'd done was.

And then eventually my boss's wife, she came out and ran through the snow, following in my tracks going, What [00:21:00] the hell’s going on? And found me and drove me back into the house and thawed me out.

Didn't realize I was half frozen. And then I said, I've got to go grab my bag and I'll be out in 20 minutes. And they said, No, you can't go anywhere there’s a blizzard, You can’t go up the roads. And I said, Well, I'm taking your ute and I'm down to the airport.It's only 300KS away

Only

Ben: 300Ks in a blizzard

Watty: So I'm going to be on the next plane whenever I get there. You know, just the process in that moment is not good. You're never geared for that. And as far as I was concerned or was thinking about, couldn’t get home quick enough

Mike: Yeah. Okay. So you managed to get your way home?

Watty: Oh, yeah. So my boss, he eventually agreed with me. He said, this is [00:22:00] the craziest thing I've ever had to do, but I'll get you to the airport. And we drove the 300 KS through the blizzard and all I remember of that trip is trucks everywhere off on the side of the road. They just were crashing around us. liding off, had slid off. No cars were on the road because they were all too small.

And here we are in a F truck and he put some weight in the back of it I didn't realize. But before we left he went and got a pallet of something. I don't know what it was. He put some weight in the back knowing what he was doing and now I’d figured all this out later he got me to the airport got on the plane and and fortunately for me, there's an elderly woman now in the world somewhere who stood at [00:23:00] the back of the plane with me for the entire trip while I balled my eyes out She was mum. She was a nice person, but shit

Mike: I can't imagine that trip

Watty: I don’t go there very often Sorry

Ben: No You’ve rightly so because it's raw and shit.

Watty: Yeah. Yeah.

Ben: So you've been on the plane. You get back to Australia. Where did you land? What happens next?

Watty: Landed where I did this morning out here at Tullamarine and two of my mates drove are there to pick me up and my cousin Stu and mate Phil was there and I didn't know, I didn't know if I had bag s or where I was or what was going on with the whole process.

Like, I don't remember. Someone dealt with passports and stuff for me and it was just crazy. And as soon as I saw them, I just [00:24:00] want to know what was going on and it wasn't until then that I actually discovered he had committed suicide. There's been an accident. That's all I had. So one thing to lose your brother, one thing to have that trip then you actually find out how it's happened and you still don't know anything.

And so it's just a whole heap of why’s that you can't be answered. And my mates couldn't answer everything. And then we had a five hour drive to home and in a flash, you know, a couple of days later, I'm burying my brother. That at 15 you shouldn't be doing.

And back then, you know, this is a long time ago. I'm 25 now, so fair way back. Yeah no it was about 30 years ago, a long time ago or I had not actually heard the word suicide.

So I didn't know. [00:25:00] I knew nothing about that process. And why and how and I’m standing up to my brother's gravesite after he had committed suicide. And that is the end of that. No more brother.

Mike: Fucking Hell

Watty: it was only made worse by the fact that and I didn't think it would get worse. But in that year, in a 12 month period, I buried six mates

Mike: All to suicides?

Watty: No, no, not all suicides. I was just there for six other funerals and, you know, car accidents and all sorts other things happened.

But at the end of that 12 month period, all I just was looking at myself going, I don't want to have any mates so I don't want people to be around me because they’re dying that set me off on a whole different tangent

Mike: Can you tell us about the tangent?

Watty: I had a lovely family who'd [00:26:00] be, like, my second parents pick me up. I couldn't go back to Canada. I was offered to go back and I had neighbors who were going to pay for me and the whole lot, but couldn't do that.

So I ended up working for fantastic family. But I'll work 8 hours for Kieran and then I'll work 8 hours for myself. And I just worked just because Yeah, I just worked myself in a hole for that year and then the next 9. So I just became a workaholic and a pretty grumpy bastard really at a young age, which is not good.

Ben: Was that your way of numbing the pain, do you think?

Watty: Yeah, I couldn't sleep. If you can’t sleep you gotta do something

So I thought I might as well be useful in farming. I work. So someone said, Oh we've got to layer that paddock[00:27:00]

Yeah I’ll do it no worries so long as they fed me, I would stay out there. It was better than going to sleep.

Ben: Sort of imagine like that being as if you’re just essentially running on adrenaline. Going as soon as I stop, that becomes more real. So therefore, you just keep going and going and going and working and working in those moments when you're out on the farm working and they're saying this paddock needs plowing Are they saying what we're seeing now and hearing now or are they seeing a different Watty That's yeah, no worries. We'll get it done, easy as

Watty: I didn’t recognize that I was in strife. Or maybe I was in trouble but it didn't stop me. He just said, well heres the next paddock, here’s more work

Mike: So do you think is helping you?

Watty: He was definitely helping just by allowing [00:28:00] me to be me and leaving me on my own Then he came and checked with me. Oh, that's enough. "Come on, let's go have a beer at the pub. or let’s go and have a feed let’s just stop what you’re doing", "No, no, I'm right".

Okay, well, And that went on for months, so he just let me be. And then he created work for me when everyone else would pack up on the weekend and want to go and play footy. I'd get on the mower on the tractor and just drive. And while there was a machine going, I was on it. So yeah, that was, that was my way of, I don't know what I was trying to figure out which way was up or yeah, whatever.

But I became pretty anti-social pretty quick. Not much fun to be around a bloke like that. So [00:29:00] yeah, they just let me be and then,

you know, I slowly had a couple of conversations and well, How about we go to the footy and how about we buy you some footy bootsand how about you get involved and yeah, they got me into the local footy and, and then life moves on, you know, I was at college

and I had to go back and I had to, I didn't want to go back. So yeah, the principal came over and had a yarn and said, well look, we think and oh, your mate’s have said, I want you to come back, let's do this.

And, and that really got me back on the bandwagon with going back to be around my 28 mates. If that wasn't for Don and Jane that wouldn't have happen.

I would just stayed driving in circles.

Ben: We're going to hear it. [00:30:00] But what was your relationship with Kieran like?

Watty: It was fantastic. He was he and I were the ones who were going to go home to the farm. So everything that I was doing, I was the big brother, He was looking at me as to what I was doing. We rode motorbikes, we water ski, we did everything together and the big brother, little brother combination with a gap there of five years is it's a really good thing if it works. And it was working for us.

Mike: you were best mates?

Watty: Yeah. Yeah. And I’m pretty practical sort of bloke and I'd go to the shed and would fix something or build something and he'd want to be right there with me and show me had a, well this and teach me how to cut that.

And then he was yeah, he was very, very practical. So he'd [00:31:00] see something once and copy me and I thought that was pretty cool.

Mike: What were the main emotions going through your head, obviously, when you found out what had actually happened in the circumstances surrounding it, what was... what were you sort of feeling and how were you feeling towards Kieran?

Watty: I was angry. I was really angry. Like, how could you do that to me? Like, I just thought it was the selfish thing in the world. I didn't know what he had to live through. I was totally unaware that there was that sort of crap going on his head, no idea

So I was only worried about me I was angry. Yeah.

Must been ten times worse for him.

Ben: No warning signs?

Watty: No nothing, Old school, nothing And the stuff that people talk about and the fact that we're talking about it here, the only reason I [00:32:00] put myself in here is because, you know, I want to help someone and not live through the shit I lived through.

Mike: It's called Talkin’ Tough Ben and sitting through the last 20 minutes across from a bloke like yourself and listening to that and to be able to open up like you did, that is the definition of toughness.

To be able to sit out and do something you're not familiar with doing and open up like that and to talk about it, you know, in order to help other people I think is really brave. So hats off to you.

Ben: because we're better off talking about it than bottling it up and like you say, Kieren was 15 he’s a young bloke that from the outside in probably looks like he's got the world at his feet and everything's gone alright and like you said no warning signs [00:33:00] and then that and the, the repercussions the mental health battles that then you your whole family his mates and everyone goes through like that's the stuff that is so tough.

And like you can hear it right here, right now that it's still tough to this day, coming back to coming back to Ski for Life like you said, that they didn't know about any of this.

Watty: So, no, it was a it was a pretty horrific way to introduce my mates to what I'd been living through. So, we decided, yes, we could do it the next year,

and we lined up a few other boats and got some other people happening.

And then the first three towns that we Ski'd into, of the first day, there had been a suicide in that week.

Mike: Jeez.

Watty: And one of them was that day at the town that we Ski'd [00:34:00] into that afternoon.

And I was pulled out with Jane. And could we go and talk to this lady who was distraught and she just lost her husband Hours earlier and she was hanging on to me a nd standing there and just wailing and asking what we all do.

Why? And all I wanted to do is get back on the water, go skiing. And that's when I pretty much lost it you couldn't have scripted that in a horror movie And to be dealt with that in that week and then these people and then all of a sudden

Then I sat down that night with the group and I was honest with them for the first time in 20 years and said, Look, this is what's actually happened to me. This is what I'm dealing with. And I'm not here just for the skiing.

So I'm just [00:35:00] unlucky to be in that position When you're not trying to be in that position there I don't think anyone could try for that. But I felt totally overwhelmed and all I knew t hat I could do was ski

So chuck me in the river. Don't talk to me. Just leave me alone and just drive I’ve don't even have to stop

Mike: And when you finally, you know, you got 20 years of keeping it to yourself and

not talking to anyone. You've got a specific obviously those three interactions that you've had have led to, you know, having to share something that you hadn't shared for 20 years.

Mike: What did it feel like to open up and talk about Kieran after so long?

Watty: It was it's painful, but it's good. And, you know, I get emotional, so I don't apologize for that. That's just the way I [00:36:00] am. But it's still grabs me. So it's like I was there yesterday. When I talk about it, it's it's just that's how it is. But I thought for a while, the more I talked about it, the better off it would be and we are 10 years in with Ski for life and It might... I know it’s helped other people. I've had people come to me and the conversations we've had about being honest and being real have been has helped and I have people that rely on my input for that.

And that's fantastic. And there's a whole lot of other people we never know who you're having a positive effect on. So that's why I put myself in this position, not because I'm enjoying it, I tell you and I don't intend to keep doing it because it's just so hard. And I'm not that 25 [00:37:00] year old bloke I'm dreaming of.

I'm 53, so I'm on the wrong side of it and it just doesn't get any easier for me. So when you talk about personal stuff, like that, it’s hard

Mike: It’s hard work

Watty: But I think the, the upside is there's a lot more people benefit from knowing that, you know, I'm not the only bloke that’s been put in this position. I didn't choose the position. I just ended up in there. And there's lots of people that are in that or similar positions and I'm happy to talk to them and/or their kids. And I'd rather focus I have chosen out of the last ten years to put as much energy in as I can to those 15 year old kids.

Obviously, it's obvious to me, b ut you know, if I can help someone else, that could have been my brother [00:38:00] and prevent them from making that mistake in the young stage and get them through what they think is a hard time.

At that stage and get on with life. And maybe, you know, that's this positive to me

Ben: And what sort of...I know, you've told me there's been three in particular that you know because of conversations you've had with them. I still hear to this day, what did those conversations involve being through what you went through and then how you talking to those...

Watty: So I got phone calls from parents. "Can you help? We know you're in Ski for like and it's about mental health and we've got this happening with our son or daughter."

And I said, Yep, I'll be there in as many hours as it takes to drive, and I’ll drive there

So one of them I drove four hours, got there, checked in [00:39:00] with mum and dad. They're all together. And I said, Right, I want to talk to your daughter on her own but I'll have the same conversation with you as soon as we're finished.

So I promise I won’t hide anything. And I'm not professional, but what I am going to say to them is this is how my brother made me feel. This is the shit that I’ve been through. And so when you sit down with that kid that things are having a bad time and want to bail out and you give them your version of what's happened to your life and your family and the ripple effect that that's created and the crap that they're about to create, it makes them think twice at least, and it's been effective.

So for whatever reason, I've just given them my version and said, do not, do not bail [00:40:00] out on me.

Figure out whatever the hiccup is and let's sort it out. And we've set a few goals and usually all I've got is, well, I'll teach you how to ski or I'll teach you how to barefoot and I’ll teach you how to do something on the water.

If you promise me you're not going to bail it’s been a trading game. I've traded with them, but they're here and they get over their period of time And I'm proud of that achievement. So.

Ben: And I know you've said to me that you also said and if or when you get to that point, you pick up the phone and you ring me

Watty: They’ll got to promise that to me first I’m the first

Ben: To know that you're not sitting there saying, look, from this day forward, you're not going to feel like that, from this day [00:41:00] forward You ring me first and we talk about it and I'll come to you.

Watty: Yeah, you're exactly correct Ben. So I made them promise me if I teach you these things and the, the couple of people I'm thinking about, you know, they wanted to learn some skiing skills, so they had a want to do that. I had the capacity to get them there. I wanted them to stay alive And I had the capacity if they promised me that I was the first phone call.

So when they're going up and down and having a hard time, you've got to have the... someone has to be in your team and you got to know who it is. So I made it real clear I’m it, don’t worry about mum or dad or anyone else, I'll deal with them and I'll let them know.

But you've got to [00:42:00] ring me first and yeah, I've taken a few of those calls and we've worked their way through it and it's fantastic.

What a thing to have.

Mike: You've been around Ski for Life people a lot, so you've obviously been able to hear different versions and different stories that have touched your heart, similar to your own story and early, you know, you mentioned, you know, there was a level of anger associated with the loss of your brother. I'm really keen to know now with everything you know, a little bit more obviously years under your belt. You're a bit of an old fellow now.

Watty: That’s right I’m grandfather now

Mike: Don’t want to rub it in but Benny calls me old So that must make you

Watty: You’re a young bloke

Mike: but now sort of your understanding and I'm keen like has your stance softened? Where do you sit with [00:43:00] it now?

Watty: Uh, you know, I'm, I'm still angry with my brother's decision, but I've had a lot more time and experience now grown into the experience of looking at what the hell did he have to go through?

And what were his trials and tribulations and what were the hurdles that were in front of him, and how could you possibly get that bad to make that decision?

So I’m lot more empathetic to the to that person. If I think or get a glimpse or someone mentions to me that someone's in a bit of strife, then

I'm in batting for him straight away going Listen, you know, what is it that's making life hard and trying to give him a ray of sunshine to have a look and go, Oh, yeah, there's people here that care about you and you got to identify that pretty quick and [00:44:00] then make sure that those people put in. Now, don't think about ringing him next week. Ring him now if you know he's not going well.

And if he's not answering the phone, go there and drive and see him and just be.

Yeah there's no expert but they all sit down with plenty of blokes, sat on the stump one day for 8 hours and we just talked not about much really, but it was pretty critical 8 hours

and it just being empathetic and caring and being real.

There’s no use being bomb proof When that's going on, you've just got to really be in the moment.

Mike: Really good advice.

Ben: So they're the sort of things that's what I was going to ask is that all of us out there listening, you went through what you went through you’re at now, like are they some of the things [00:45:00] that you just mentioned? Like what was the process?

What can we learn to either support, Like either look after ourselves through that look?

Would you have done anything different in those first ten years? Knowing what you know?

Watty: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know who flipped the switch and told me that working 16 hours a day was a good idea. But that was a decision

I made in the first 5 minutes, so I don't know when that happened or how it occurred. And it wasn't until About ten years in, I looked over my shoulder and went, what am I doing?

So no, I would not wish anyone to go down that path. It's not healthy. I wished I had taken some advice from well-meaning people, but I just couldn't or wouldn't or wasn't the right person coming at me.

So if you're trying to help someone, [00:46:00] don't give up on them. Just come from different angles and find out what is.

And sometimes the help is the simplest things. "Hey do you want to go for a ski? Come with us for the weekend.Do something. "

"Oh, no, I'm too busy."

Yeah, well, I've been a busy bloke too, so if I hear you're too busy.

Okay, well, I'm going to make something happen. I'll create something. You've got to create an environment to make change and. And you've got to have something to aim at and that might be throwing your leg over a bike Or in my case, it all changed once my kids start turning up.

Yeah. Once you've got kids, lifes different. And yeah, there's all sorts of hurdles coming at you. But if you got kids and you've got a couple of mates, if you got a hand full of mates and [00:47:00] something to aim at, life’s pretty good and just keep making goals More my current goal m at the moment if I had to set them a fair way out of I've tried to I said to Ben earlier today that I try and get uncluttered and I've got off committees and soon I’m trying to get more time to ourselves. And since Christmas we've been off all committees and that's great.

Ben goes, "how’s that going for you?" I’ve had two weekends to myself

Mike: Filled Up

Watty: Clearly, if you're a busy person, you just fill it up with other stuff. So then I've had to re calibrate a month or so ago with Sue and sat down and said, 'I don't think I'm getting it yet' and not sure how to unwind and slow down, but I'm going to book this holiday and I booked at two and a [00:48:00] half years in advance

Ben: Just to know you're actually going to take it.

Watty: This is going to happen and I'm going to tell everyone about it and I'm going Bush for three months Going to WA and I’ve never been to the top of WA and get out there but I've actually written it down I've told everyone around me of planned it and I’ve planned it that far in front that the next weekends headaches are not going to get in the road of it and so yeah we're aiming at something bigger or better for a longer and just put it a bit further out because of our lifestyle.

Mike: Good Advice It's been fantastic talking to you today Watty as always, what we like to do is we like to throw a few quick fire questions at our guests.

You ready for that?

Watty: Sure.

Mike: Yep. Benny. Ready to [00:49:00] Hit him with those?

Ben: Yeah. All right. Watty, Schnitty or Steak?

Watty: Steak

Mike: Book, Poddy or Tunes

Watty: Tunes.

Mike: Favourite?

Watty: Country Always

Ben: Hit me in the feels

Mike: Best place to have a yarn with a mate?

Watty: In the shed

Mike: Love it, What's the worst advice People give when it comes to mental health?

Watty: You’ll be right mate that is the advice that they give you.

Ben: Dismissive Bullshit

Watty: Well they don’t mean... they don't mean, mean or bad thoughts about it. That's just all they know how to respond.

Being coached to go, Well, maybe you won't be alright. Maybe we need a bit of conversation. Yeah, but yeah, you'll be right, mate. And then just get off the topic.

Mike: What's the best advice?

Watty: Hang in there. Never let go of the rope. Hang in there yeah

Ben: Last but not least, being through what you've been through now and what you know now. [00:50:00] What's your definitive definition of tough today?

Watty: Doing this is pretty tough. I would say, this as tough as it gets for me

So, um, yeah, I think there's different versions of tough. And we used to look at the big tattooed, shearer as tough. And there are people who are skinny, no tattoos who are mental giants you know, so tough between he's tough in the muscle is not even close.

So you could have a mix of both but just been resilient and being tough enough to be able to have a conversation if you're in strife and go actually I’m not going so well

And I think it's tough in that position. It's tough getting out of the position.

But you've, got to let someone know

Ben: For sure. You summed it up perfectly. The toughest definition of tough is talking about it. and doing this. You're spot [00:51:00] on, mate Thank you so much for jumping on the like you've said, Ski for Life wouldn't be what it is without you. And all of the hours, effort blood, sweat and tears that you've put into it.

And oh, I just want to thank you for being so open. It's been a very heavy, moving conversation, but we've some laughs as well. And that's what it's all about.

It's being able to talk about the funny stuff, the serious stuff and the way in which we feel so mate. Thank you so much, for being here

Mike: Yeah, and I know it's been absolutely tough.

And if I coud just add that, you know, listening to you talk and I there's a lot of people out there that similar to yourself, don't like to chat about it.

You know, the tough exterior Aussie males that are going to get an [00:52:00] absolute hell of a lot out of a conversation like this mate, I really appreciate you Opening up and being so honest with us today.

Watty: You're welcome. It is not easy, but hopefully it helps someone and there's a whole lot of fun to be had. So you know, this this seems like it's all it, is too tough.

But we enjoy our lives and we do a lot of fun things.

And I'm looking forward to the next 20 years with grandkids doing that.

Mike: So love it.

Watty: Thanks boys, appreciate it

Mike: Well today’s episode was a pretty heavy episode. So if you are feeling like you need to reach out to a mate, please do. And if you do need to call Lifeline 13 11 14 and take care of yourself.